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Modern attitudes to conflict
OMG.
He's taken the things I've been theorizing but thought I was alone and haven't been able to talk about, and he's put brilliant words to them. This is it!
Marc MacYoung, "Conflict: the 21st Century Taboo":
Current dogma is that conflict is bad. Physical violence is viewed as evil, abhorrent, traumatic, out of control and something that must socially engineered out of existence by policies, laws and legal retribution.
And yes we intentionally used the word 'dogma.' Much of what are being promoted as unquestionable 'truths' on these subjects are not only unproven, but in many instances demonstrably false (e.g. "Violence never solved anything"). Offering a different point of view is risky. Daring to question the veracity of popular 'truths' about violence is often an invitation to a tirade worthy of a religious fanatic.
At Conflict Communications we contend popular denial, condemnation and ignorance don't protect people from the trauma of conflict and violence. They instead leave people vulnerable and more traumatized. Simply stated, teaching abstinence does not instill coping skills regarding a normal human behavior.
(the rest of the article)
Just had to share that with somebody, while I'm sitting here all elated that anti-violence neurosis really, truly, is wrong. And there's a logical case for it.
He's taken the things I've been theorizing but thought I was alone and haven't been able to talk about, and he's put brilliant words to them. This is it!
Marc MacYoung, "Conflict: the 21st Century Taboo":
Current dogma is that conflict is bad. Physical violence is viewed as evil, abhorrent, traumatic, out of control and something that must socially engineered out of existence by policies, laws and legal retribution.
And yes we intentionally used the word 'dogma.' Much of what are being promoted as unquestionable 'truths' on these subjects are not only unproven, but in many instances demonstrably false (e.g. "Violence never solved anything"). Offering a different point of view is risky. Daring to question the veracity of popular 'truths' about violence is often an invitation to a tirade worthy of a religious fanatic.
At Conflict Communications we contend popular denial, condemnation and ignorance don't protect people from the trauma of conflict and violence. They instead leave people vulnerable and more traumatized. Simply stated, teaching abstinence does not instill coping skills regarding a normal human behavior.
(the rest of the article)
Just had to share that with somebody, while I'm sitting here all elated that anti-violence neurosis really, truly, is wrong. And there's a logical case for it.
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I think I know the nononsense one off by heart (but they do keep adding to it!)
Rory Miller is pretty awesomely insightful as well as Marc.
I happen to agree btw, with the premise. And conflict resolution skills are barely considered or taught, and if they are they never go further than verbal conflict.
Shit, I never asked onlist for a Self defence course. Barely been there. When are you gonna be able to post? Still want me to do it for you?
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Re the list, I can't answer for Daria and Lin, it'll defeat a big part of the point if I tried to push them out of the way, and I seriously doubt either one would consent.
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I think the conditioning is local. Quite a white middle-class thing I think. Well, probably a lot more than that but for eg, Weaver's bowhunting mate is from a real irish working class background and physical violence is just one of those realities you live with and partake of if the mood suits you, or someone pushes you too far, or worst crime of all, hurts someone you love.
But oddly enough the level of *emotional* and *social* violence is a lot lower around these people. Go figure huh?
Another element is when weapons are routinely involved, or carried. Like at the bowhunting club. Violence of ANY sort isn't condoned - except for a huge piss-up brawl at the christmas party or whatever! That is Expected! But in general interaction, no one gets worked up, or if they do they are treated in a way where that worked-up-edness is acknowledged and they are calmed down and listened too before it goes pear-shaped. With a whole lot of deadly weapons lying around, and everyone there having used said weapons to KILL things with, they all behave really differently than say the way they were to my friend at her work in her "cushy" white, middle-class, highly paid govt job. (and she is still recovering emotionally from their treatment) *shudders*
So yeah, definitely not global I don't think! (thankfully!)
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Plus do you just need another day for the lesson? Or are there questions you need to get one of our answers for? I know we've left a lot of them unanswered.
- Daria
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I didn't see this till just now, and last night posted on the list for you lol!
And yep, when you do post on the list I will definitely have your back *smiles*
To be honest the whole lesson thing went out the window yesterday, stupid headache :-( (We don't usually get them right in the middle of the day, but yesterday we did and I couldn't function. Oh well...)
Will take a look at it all today, and listen to my intuition on it and put a lesson or whatever, up today.
:-)
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well, there's the pernicious myth that violence is a "primitive" instint which would spiral out-of-control if not for authoritarian reprsessive measures practiced by "civilised" modern humans
and then, there's an abundance of evidence that the members of anarchic hunter-gatherer communities are amongst the most gentle people on earth.
i would think that your bowhunting club is a lot closer to that "primitive" social model than a govenment office is.
of course, repression doesn't work. in the civilisised enviromnent, the repressed emotions find outlet in whatever subtle form escapes regulation; at which point they're beyond any form of social regulation, and do, indeed, spiral out-of-control
i've noticed that irish people are not just more accepting of violence than we english. they are also more cultered. they are more literate. They wrie better poetry, and they find it natural to read and appreciate poetry (whilst we english tend to regard that as the exclusive domain of the middle class... once you're old enough to have outgrown nursery rhymes). they sing and dance and make music, whilst we have been largely dispossessed of these things.we are relegated to the auditorium, unless we prove to have a special talent(in which case we're evelated above the common masses, so as to always retain a clear distinction)
i've had the privilege and pleasure, of working alongside africans, in a factory environment. most of them hail from small villages, where people still run around barefoot. they have more dignity than the rest of us. they have more native intelligence, seeminlgy. they lack a work-ethic and only do what needs to be done, no more (so they often get put down as "lazy"); they are non-judgmental; they sing as they work.
i think what the africans share with the irish is a personality and social structure, relatively undistorted by urbanisation and the powerful centralised hierarchical structures that come along with that; and the slavery and wage-slavery that come along with that. they retain their sensitivity, their creativity, their sense of automony, their self-respect. it is a bigger thing altogether than mere attitude to violence.
which is not exactly what i meant to say. but worth saying anyway, i think *grin*
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I always wondered if Ireland has done that too? Are our Irish-Australians playing out a relic of a culture that has long ago moved on?
Interesting too about the african people. Exactly what Tim Flannery was saying on the radio in an interview I heard.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Flannery
A note on the bowhunter's club. The Northern Territory ie my home! is notoriously a lot less regulated in this kind of area (hunting etc) than the rest of Australia, and is a large part of why the NT appeals to hunters. I wonder if that has any bearing on the social interactions, if people who are comfortable with that style are drawn here more than ones who aren't? I have no experience of southern hunting clubs so hey... Although Weaver (our hunter) just reminded me the other hunters she talked to in Canberra seemed cut from the same cloth.
Things to ponder huh!
Wanna be lj friends?
- Leonie
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i followed your link. seems like an age ago..oops it was. my first visit to LJ in ages, though i did make a mental note to reply to your "Wanna be lj friends" with an enthusiastic "YES"
huh. guess that sounds a bit insincere after such a long interval
you'll get used to me (i hope)
walkie :)
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We'll go friend you back, if we didn't already.
- Imoh (Leonie is asleep atm)